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wavy
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Post subject: Re: England my England Posted: 04 Jun 2009 09:13 |
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 18:41 Posts: 5715 Location: Edinburgh
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Brucey {l Wrote}: Scotland gave us The Proclaimers........ Oh and Wet Wet Wet. i think scotland contributed a little more than that http://www.magicdragon.com/Wallace/thingscot.htmland 40 years of oil tho that technically belongs to shetland. you gave us thatcher and the poll tax
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Poundsey
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Post subject: Re: England my England Posted: 04 Jun 2009 11:35 |
Joined: 15 Dec 2008 11:03 Posts: 1563 Location: Darlington, County Durham
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eachann {l Wrote}: For every one thing to be proud of about your country, it's done 100 things to be ashamed of.
Not just england or scotland, pretty much all countries.
Nationalism/patriotism is stupid, IMO. The really stupid thing is that we are not taught about the wrongs of our country when we go through school. We subjugated the Irish with brutality and starved them. I never learned about that at school and when having a discussion with some Irish blokes about 'the troubles' they were amazed at the fact that I knew nothing of our forefathers' actions. How am I supposed to understand a world that was shaped by the British Empire and shafted by the British Empire, when I wasn't educated about the Empire and the history of the Britain? The problem with English patriotism is that we are unable to do it with the full understanding of our own history and that is dangerous.
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Brucey
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Post subject: Re: England my England Posted: 04 Jun 2009 14:48 |
Joined: 14 Dec 2008 21:34 Posts: 116
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wavy {l Wrote}: Brucey {l Wrote}: Scotland gave us The Proclaimers........ Oh and Wet Wet Wet. i think scotland contributed a little more than that http://www.magicdragon.com/Wallace/thingscot.htmland 40 years of oil tho that technically belongs to shetland. you gave us thatcher and the poll tax I know that wavy. Also, we gave you your parliment building. £375m came from the english tax payer to go with the £75m from the scottish tax payer. TBH as wales and scotland have their own governments now, and only they can vote on matters affecting themseves in them, they should now have no rights voting on things that only affect england. ALSO as they have their own governments and policies, the border checkpoints should be put back in (thus having to show our passports to enter and leave), and we should scrap the great britain/united kingdom.
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Brucey
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Post subject: Re: England my England Posted: 04 Jun 2009 15:04 |
Joined: 14 Dec 2008 21:34 Posts: 116
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Neotax {l Wrote}: not sure what is worse tom jones or roydrip :/ roydrip.. easily
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wavy
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Post subject: Re: England my England Posted: 04 Jun 2009 15:51 |
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 18:41 Posts: 5715 Location: Edinburgh
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{l Quote}: Also, we gave you your parliment building. £375m came from the english tax payer to go with the £75m from the scottish tax payer.
TBH as wales and scotland have their own governments now, and only they can vote on matters affecting themseves in them, they should now have no rights voting on things that only affect england. ALSO as they have their own governments and policies, the border checkpoints should be put back in (thus having to show our passports to enter and leave), and we should scrap the great britain/united kingdom. you really are a prick the houses of parliament were over budget and funded by scotland, england and wales, ie great britain. you did not give anyone a parliament building, its spelled PARLIAMENT http://www.parliament.uk/im sure scotland will give you back whatever you think it cost you if you would kindly return the oil revenue taken from shetland and scotland. the tax collected on that alone amounts to close on £1,000,000,000,000 you assume i am scottish, my parents were born in london and clacton. from shetland grandparents. even the BMP wont go so far as to put passport control on internal UK borders. you really need to think about what you say, causing offence is one thing, nationalism is bad enough but outright bigotry can never be allowed you should just stay in your house and shout at the tv or STFU
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eachann
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Post subject: Re: England my England Posted: 04 Jun 2009 16:25 |
Joined: 31 Dec 2008 01:22 Posts: 217
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copypasta from another post i've made {l Quote}: Anaesthetic, The Steam Engine, Antisepsis, contributions to Quantum theory (brownian movement), The telegraph, Pneumatic Tyres, Cure for scurvy, decimal points, Fax Machines, Paraffin, Radar Defense System, the first ever cloned mammal, Sulphuric Acid Refrigerators, Golf , hypodermic syringes ,The Kelvin scale of temperature, Logarithms, Marmalade (debatable) , Mackintosh Raincoats, Penicillin, Quinine, The telephone Television, Sociology, Breech-loading rifle, Auld Lang Syne, lots of famous literature, Whisky I just wish the proclaimers and wet wet wet weren't in there 
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eachann
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Post subject: Re: England my England Posted: 04 Jun 2009 16:29 |
Joined: 31 Dec 2008 01:22 Posts: 217
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DM. {l Wrote}: eachann {l Wrote}: For every one thing to be proud of about your country, it's done 100 things to be ashamed of.
Not just england or scotland, pretty much all countries.
Nationalism/patriotism is stupid, IMO. The really stupid thing is that we are not taught about the wrongs of our country when we go through school. We subjugated the Irish with brutality and starved them. I never learned about that at school and when having a discussion with some Irish blokes about 'the troubles' they were amazed at the fact that I knew nothing of our forefathers' actions. How am I supposed to understand a world that was shaped by the British Empire and shafted by the British Empire, when I wasn't educated about the Empire and the history of the Britain? The problem with English patriotism is that we are unable to do it with the full understanding of our own history and that is dangerous. Yep - anyone who still thinks the British empire was FANTASTIC should read this for starters http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=1514{l Quote}:
In a few weeks, a group of quiet, dignified elderly men and women will arrive in London to explain how the forces of the British state crushed their testicles or breasts with plyers. It was part of a deliberate policy of breaking a civillian population who we regarded as “baboons”, “barbarians” and “terrorists.” They will come bearing the story of how Britain invaded a country, stole its land, and imprisoned an entire civillian population in detention camps – and they ask only for justice, after all this time.
As a small symbol of how we as a country have not come to terms with our history, compare the bemused reaction to the arrival of these Kenyan survivors of Britain’s gulags to the recent campaign supporting the Gurkhas. We have all waxed lyrical over the Nepalese mercenaries who were, for two centuries, hired by the British Empire to fight its least savoury battles. Sometimes they were used in great causes, like the defeat of Nazism. Sometimes they were used to viciously crush democratic movements in India or Malaya or Pakistan. But they obediently did the bidding of the Empire – so they are a rare bunch of foreigners who the right will turn moist over and welcome to our island.
I too strongly supported their rights to reside in Britain, out of simple humanity – if they’re good enough to die for us, they’re good enough to live with us. But isn’t it revealing that even in 2009, we can cheer the servants of Empire but blank the people mutilated and murdered by it? There will be no press campaigns or celebrity endorsements for the surivors of the Kenyan supression when they issue a reperations claim in London next month. They will be met with a bemused shrug. Yet their story tells us far more.
The British arrived in Kenya in the 1880s, at a time when our economic dominance was waning and new colonies were needed. The Colonial Office sent in waves of white settlers to seize the land from the local “apes” and mark it with the Union Jack. Francis Hall was the officer of the East India Company tasked with mounting armed raids against the Kikuyu – the most populous local tribe – to break their resistance. He said: “There is only one way of improving the [Kikuyu] and that is to wipe them out; I would only be too delighted to do so but we have to depend on them for food supplies.”
The British troops stole over sixty thousand acres from the Kikuyu, and renamed the area “the White Highlands.” But the white settlers were artistocratic dillettantes with little experience of farming, and they were soon outraged to discover that the “primitives” were growing food far more efficiently on the reserves they had been driven into. So they forced the local black population to work “their” land, and passed a law banning the local Africans from independently growing the most profitable cash crops – tea, coffee, and sisal.
The people of Kenya objected, and tried to repel the invaders. They called for “ithaka na wiyathi” – land and freedom. After peaceful protests were met with violence, they formed a group, dubbed the Mau Mau, to stop the supression any way they could. They started killing the leaders appointed by the British, and some of the settlers too. As a result, the London press described them as “evil savages” and “terrorists” motivated by hatred of Christianity and civilisation. They had been “brainwashed” by “Mau Mau cult leaders”, the reports shrieked.
The 1.5 million Kikuya overwhelmingly supported the Mau Mau and independence – so the British declared war on them all. A State of Emergency was announced, and it began with forced removals of all Kikuyu. Anybody living outside the reserves – in any of the cities, for example – was rounded up at gunpoint, packed into lorries, and sent to “transit camps”. There, they were “screened” to see if they were Mau Mau supporters. One of the people locked up this way for months was Barack Obama’s grandfather.
Professor Caroline Elkins, who studied the detention camps for five years for her remarkable book ‘Britain’s Gulag: The Brutal End of Empire in Kenya’, explains the tactics adopted by the British to snuffle out Mau Mau. “Electric shock was widely used, as well as cigarettes and fire,” she writes. “Bottles (often broken), gun barrels, knives, snakes, vermin and hot eggs were thrust up men’s rectums and women’s vaginas. The screening teams whipped, shot, burned, and mutilated Mau Mau suspects.”
The people judged to be guilty of Mau Mau sympathies were transferred to torture camps. There, each detainee was given a number which they had to wear on a band on their wrist. They were then stripped naked and sent through a cattle dip, before the torture would begin again. “Detainees were frog-marched around the compound and beaten until blood ran from their ears,” Elkins writes.
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Brucey
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Post subject: Re: England my England Posted: 04 Jun 2009 17:51 |
Joined: 14 Dec 2008 21:34 Posts: 116
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wavy {l Wrote}: {l Quote}: Also, we gave you your parliment building. £375m came from the english tax payer to go with the £75m from the scottish tax payer.
TBH as wales and scotland have their own governments now, and only they can vote on matters affecting themseves in them, they should now have no rights voting on things that only affect england. ALSO as they have their own governments and policies, the border checkpoints should be put back in (thus having to show our passports to enter and leave), and we should scrap the great britain/united kingdom. you really are a prick the houses of parliament were over budget and funded by scotland, england and wales, ie great britain. you did not give anyone a parliament building, its spelled PARLIAMENT http://www.parliament.uk/im sure scotland will give you back whatever you think it cost you if you would kindly return the oil revenue taken from shetland and scotland. the tax collected on that alone amounts to close on £1,000,000,000,000 you assume i am scottish, my parents were born in london and clacton. from shetland grandparents. even the BMP wont go so far as to put passport control on internal UK borders. you really need to think about what you say, causing offence is one thing, nationalism is bad enough but outright bigotry can never be allowed you should just stay in your house and shout at the tv or STFU but they should have no rights on voting on matters that only affect england, when english mps can not vote on scottish or welsh matters. it is BNP not BMP. I am not intolerant of or take offense to the opinions differing from my own. Everyone is diferent. We agree to disagree on this matter
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wavy
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Post subject: Re: England my England Posted: 04 Jun 2009 18:29 |
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 18:41 Posts: 5715 Location: Edinburgh
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{l Quote}: but they should have no rights on voting on matters that only affect england, when english mps can not vote on scottish or welsh matters. english mps are the in the majority. english mps have been voting on all things scottish and welsh for 300 years. infact there was a tory government not so long ago that had no elected mps in scotland yet managed to implement policies unwanted and unwelcome in scotland. the government minister for scotland was an mp from kent as there were no elected scottish tories. thats democracy for you. we cant have it all ways. {l Quote}: it is BNP not BMP. typo. not bad spelling, i type well for being nearly blind.
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